I don't think everyone has to read modern books. I just think you're obviously going to miss out on a lot of relevant information if you only read the most popular classic Stoic texts. I know from experience that when people do my course on Marcus Aurelius they typically say they're able to enjoy the Meditations a lot more and get a lot more out of reading it, because they understand the historical and philosophical context, basically.
I've been reading Marcus Aurelius for several years, as well as a few books like yours. One thing I wish I had starting out was an annotated version of the Meditations. Actually, I could use one even now. Suggestions anyone?
I fully agree. For some philosophers I think it’s even more valuable to read modern works about them than their own works directly, at least at first (Aristotle comes to mind). Luckily, the Stoics’ writing is easy enough to read that we don’t need to resort to that for them, but you will absolutely miss out on a lot of key ideas if you do not read modern works on Stoicism.
Stoicism is a lifelong study! But yes - it is also good for us bookish folk to remember to actually practice Stoic techniques and to become a better person rather than just thinking about it! :)
The problem is that as Stoicism becomes more popular, we have more and more books out there! Sometimes it is hard to know which ones are valuable and which ones would be a waste of time.
Epictetus even cautions us against this in one of his Discourses : "Those who know precepts and nothing else are quick to vomit up there principles before digesting them, well such and such gives lectures, I wish to give lectures too; Slave you have not the proper preparation to give lectures,
you have not lived as purely as the Teacher " Discourses Epictetus
I think it is much harder to discipline and live some of these principles,
Excellent explanation of the Dunning Kruger effect and double ignorance.
I see this a lot in my workplace where people just don't know what they don't know but will take great pleasure in telling you that they do know (it all).
Exactly my experience coming into Stoicism. If you just hear quotes or even read, say, the Meditations, it’s easy to fall into traps of translation and completely miss the fact that there technical terms with specific meanings. Enchiridion 1 immediately comes to mind: judgment, inclination, desire/aversion or opinion, impulse... without taking a look at the bigger picture it’s hard to know what exactly these words are supposed to mean.
This lifelong study & practicing we want to get right (trusting)helps to proceed. Robertson gets a vision of examining the Stoics words that make sense & are respectful. Important for a teacher.
I fully agree with you. Although there are some situations where I can not do anything but to suggest only Marcus Aurelius and the other ancients to be read for someone, since they are freely available. I can not suggest to someone to buy a book, especially when the person never got through the wikipedia or chatGPT level knowledge of Stoicism.
Of course I gifted your books to my father and my brothers, but I am quite sure that they won't be read at all...
I don't think everyone has to read modern books. I just think you're obviously going to miss out on a lot of relevant information if you only read the most popular classic Stoic texts. I know from experience that when people do my course on Marcus Aurelius they typically say they're able to enjoy the Meditations a lot more and get a lot more out of reading it, because they understand the historical and philosophical context, basically.
I've been reading Marcus Aurelius for several years, as well as a few books like yours. One thing I wish I had starting out was an annotated version of the Meditations. Actually, I could use one even now. Suggestions anyone?
Robin Waterfield's is good
Thank you!
I fully agree. For some philosophers I think it’s even more valuable to read modern works about them than their own works directly, at least at first (Aristotle comes to mind). Luckily, the Stoics’ writing is easy enough to read that we don’t need to resort to that for them, but you will absolutely miss out on a lot of key ideas if you do not read modern works on Stoicism.
Stoicism is a lifelong study! But yes - it is also good for us bookish folk to remember to actually practice Stoic techniques and to become a better person rather than just thinking about it! :)
Thanks Matt, for your last paragraph! I suffer from the layers of what I don’t know piling up! Tackling requires my slowing down.
The problem is that as Stoicism becomes more popular, we have more and more books out there! Sometimes it is hard to know which ones are valuable and which ones would be a waste of time.
Epictetus even cautions us against this in one of his Discourses : "Those who know precepts and nothing else are quick to vomit up there principles before digesting them, well such and such gives lectures, I wish to give lectures too; Slave you have not the proper preparation to give lectures,
you have not lived as purely as the Teacher " Discourses Epictetus
I think it is much harder to discipline and live some of these principles,
then to just talk about them.
Thanks again
Excellent explanation of the Dunning Kruger effect and double ignorance.
I see this a lot in my workplace where people just don't know what they don't know but will take great pleasure in telling you that they do know (it all).
“Ignorance is bliss.”
And ignorance is wrong and dangerous!
Exactly my experience coming into Stoicism. If you just hear quotes or even read, say, the Meditations, it’s easy to fall into traps of translation and completely miss the fact that there technical terms with specific meanings. Enchiridion 1 immediately comes to mind: judgment, inclination, desire/aversion or opinion, impulse... without taking a look at the bigger picture it’s hard to know what exactly these words are supposed to mean.
Glad you shared this.
This lifelong study & practicing we want to get right (trusting)helps to proceed. Robertson gets a vision of examining the Stoics words that make sense & are respectful. Important for a teacher.
Excellent piece, Don, thank you!
I fully agree with you. Although there are some situations where I can not do anything but to suggest only Marcus Aurelius and the other ancients to be read for someone, since they are freely available. I can not suggest to someone to buy a book, especially when the person never got through the wikipedia or chatGPT level knowledge of Stoicism.
Of course I gifted your books to my father and my brothers, but I am quite sure that they won't be read at all...
True on the PS