Lovely piece clearly written with a love of the subject.
I would combine the thesis with Dan Kahneman’s “Thinking, Slow and Fast”. Socrates understood logic clearly, but not our view of statistics, though you imply a connection with shades of grey versus black and white, however tenuous.
The failure to understand or have statistical reasoning - which is quite different but complimentary to logic - is, to me, the basis of the bizarre reaction to, among other things, Covid and vaccines, or guns and swimming pools. I still read people complaining about Covid not creating immunity, or happy with swimming pools and kids, but not guns and kids through for children one is quite a bit more lethal than the other.
I do like the misology though, since it’s the evil twin of misotheism - aside from the obvious definition it’s the distrust of superstition. It’s surprising how unanswered prayers never quite seem to engender misotheism, attempting reason but failing causes misology.
I think it’s mostly the most risky reasoning, statistical where people fail badly over and over because the mind does not work well statistically (Kahneman). Therefore they come to mistrust much science.
The answer to the question above is, I believe, not always.
My cynical view of humans came from having the occupation of doorman/ bouncer in my younger years. Every night I saw the ugly side of people. Drinking alcohol, I believe, quite often brings out the real person that is otherwise kept under wraps by their own inhibitions(the great social lubricant). And over the yrs, as I watched(quietly, which is quite my style/personality), I realized just how ugly it so often is. I have thought about this a lot over the yrs too, as it has affected my entire life(in my 50’s now) it was far more about discovery than naivety. My story isn’t one of negativity about what I discovered but rather a piece in the puzzle that is my success. I have kept my friend group extremely sml which undoubtedly kept the drama of general people interactions to a minimum. It helped me in female selection as I am coming up on 20yrs successfully married. I was able to view the changes in society brought on by the indoctrination of feminism and the negative way it has affected western females first hand in the clubs I worked. Just trust me when I say what an ugly effect it has had on modern females and by my reckoning has only got worse since I finished that line of work(and pls don’t call me a misogynist, taking into account the healthy relationship I have with my wife, 2 daughters and a few select female friends I’m telling you it would be a rush to judgement).
On rush to judgements… your quick judgement, and obvious lack of education on the subject of Andrew Tate seems to have allowed you to make a said judgement based on, maybe a few clips you’ve been fed? First, he has never called himself a misogynist and has often explained why he loves women(especially those who openly show respect for themselves). I can only assume you’ve seen some cut clip somewhere taken out of context. I’d like to clarify, I’m no massive fan of Andrew Tate. But… Him and his brother are the 2 guys that do things like the following(often, and mostly without declaring it themselves for recognition)… a young mother puts a post up on TikTok(crying) regarding her difficulty in paying her bills that has reached a point where she has to sacrifice her daughters braces. The brothers contact her and pay all the expenses on her daughter’s braces. This only came out because the mother did another TikTok to thank them. There are many instances we don’t hear about these boys helping women and men alike without attempts to draw recognition. Doesn’t sound like the actions of misogynists to me. I’d be very careful in making judgments on people based on ‘the way the mainstream want the portrayed’. As for the current legal actions against them, I guarantee the twisting of facts will have many people making a rush to judgment, I also guarantee every girl involved was a willing participant(whether they are “Convinced” to testify otherwise or not). Make no mistake, the brothers are part of a group that went hard during the Covid con against the established narrative, since proven correct multiple times, there are very powerful groups that didn’t like that, the same groups that went all in against truth telling drs like J Bhattacharya, Peter McCullough et al who have been proven right and far mor ethical in their assessments than say Jay Varma(New Yorks Covid response head) who recently admitted to going to drug fueled sex party’s during 2020 as he was telling everyone else to wear face nappys and stay 6’ apart. But I digress.
I’ve run out of time, but the bottom line is my cynical assessment of human nature has been a healthy one by my own estimation. As for the distrust of reason I think we could again look at the Covid era, a time when people not only lost their minds(admittedly because of a well conducted fear psy op) but many so obviously use it as a power grab completely disregarding a more reasonable response to a hyped up flu season(34mil flu cases in 2019, nearly zero in 2020 but 34mil recorded Covid cases in 2020🙄, isn’t the PCR test wonderful, thanks Kary Mullis for inventing it). So post the dum ages(2020-2024) it might be fair to ask “what is reasonable, how do I trust the things presented as reason when they turn out to be a lie? Do I distrust them?
1 answer would be yes, look hard for narrative.
Just a few thoughts I had upon waking this morning. Luckily, for the time being anyway, we are still allowed to disagree, think for ourselves, and remain in healthy dialogue about it.
"First, he has never called himself a misogynist". With respect, I think you're mistaken about this, and perhaps rushing too hastily to judgement yourself. There are several examples of him referring to himself as a misogynist in ways that remain unchanged by the original context. See this interview, for instance. "You can't slander me because I will state right now that I am absolutely sexist and I'm absolutely a misogynist and I have [ __ ] you money and you can't take it away so I'll say what I want because I'm a realist and when you're a realist you're sexist there's no way you can be rooted in reality and not be sexist."
I’m really not a big enough fan of Andrew Tate to listen to a 2hr interview to discover he “referred to himself” as a misogynist(though I’m glad you are). So I’ll take your word for it and concede that one.
I will say that in the current cultural climate the word misogyny has been thrown around so much it’s just another one that’s lost it’s meaning so I’d be interested to see you interview him and ask if he’s a “pathological woman hater” and see his response… from what I’ve seen(interview wise) I doubt he’d “revel” in that description, and on balance of evidence(from what I’ve seen) you’d have a hard time convincing me he’s a pathological woman hater.
I’m not sure if you’ve had as much experience as myself in being around fighters, bodybuilders, bouncers etc. it’s a different world let me tell ya. Others may not understand this but I get what he’s saying when he says he’s got [….] money and being a realist that makes him a bit of a sexist. He’s a respected, good looking guy in his prime with way more money than most, can you even imagine the amount of women(especially the modern 5th wave feminist incarnation) are just willing to (and have) thrown their body’s at him? I’ve had a glimps of this in my previous line of work. Modern women will bend over backwards and turn themselves inside out for ‘that guy with status’, it’s just a fact. After a while you see the reality of this, you see inside the minds of all these women running around doing what society has told them is “empowering”🙄. Quite frankly it’s disgraceful, Haraam as he often puts it. Non of these discoveries make you a pathological woman hater though, especially once you understand where the brainwashing of these poor girls has come from.
I often find it amusing that people who have lived completely different lives than someone else can so quickly interpret the intentions of the other.
[You see it with Donald Trump…
“Mexico aren’t sending their best people”, oh “he hates black & brown people”🙄, truly nauseating.]
By age 28 I’d seen enough of the decline in the values of western women to declare I’d never in my life date one of them again, I’d be curious to know if that makes me a sexist or misogynist. I married an Asian and had 3 half Asian children, but ive still been called a racist since then for airing what I believe to be truths… talk about words that get bandied around like confetti in modern times hey.
We got a bit off track considering your article was some more brilliant thoughts and quotes from Soctrates haha.
I ordered “How to think like Socrates” this morning and very much look forward to reading it.
I’m also looking forward to the benefits of being a paid member on your substack, please don’t try and revoke my membership haha. I’m only a pain in the arse occasionally.
You don't need to listen to the whole interview. You can just search the transcript for the section where he describes himself as a misogynist. Because he has said this repeatedly, it's been widely reported (accurately) in the media. When someone repeatedly and emphatically complains that the media are conspiring against them and spreading lies, sometimes that's simply because they're the ones trying to mislead you.
Lovely piece clearly written with a love of the subject.
I would combine the thesis with Dan Kahneman’s “Thinking, Slow and Fast”. Socrates understood logic clearly, but not our view of statistics, though you imply a connection with shades of grey versus black and white, however tenuous.
The failure to understand or have statistical reasoning - which is quite different but complimentary to logic - is, to me, the basis of the bizarre reaction to, among other things, Covid and vaccines, or guns and swimming pools. I still read people complaining about Covid not creating immunity, or happy with swimming pools and kids, but not guns and kids through for children one is quite a bit more lethal than the other.
I do like the misology though, since it’s the evil twin of misotheism - aside from the obvious definition it’s the distrust of superstition. It’s surprising how unanswered prayers never quite seem to engender misotheism, attempting reason but failing causes misology.
I think it’s mostly the most risky reasoning, statistical where people fail badly over and over because the mind does not work well statistically (Kahneman). Therefore they come to mistrust much science.
Nice.
I am struggling with this article. I wonder what Socrates would say if he had lived my life or better yet experienced the world as it is today. 🙏🏻
Which bit don't you agree with, Mort?
What I inherited and experienced in my life are only mine. I have shared all with Sally.
You most definitely 👍 know more about Marcus Aurelius than anyone.
Take care 🙏🏻
The answer to the question above is, I believe, not always.
My cynical view of humans came from having the occupation of doorman/ bouncer in my younger years. Every night I saw the ugly side of people. Drinking alcohol, I believe, quite often brings out the real person that is otherwise kept under wraps by their own inhibitions(the great social lubricant). And over the yrs, as I watched(quietly, which is quite my style/personality), I realized just how ugly it so often is. I have thought about this a lot over the yrs too, as it has affected my entire life(in my 50’s now) it was far more about discovery than naivety. My story isn’t one of negativity about what I discovered but rather a piece in the puzzle that is my success. I have kept my friend group extremely sml which undoubtedly kept the drama of general people interactions to a minimum. It helped me in female selection as I am coming up on 20yrs successfully married. I was able to view the changes in society brought on by the indoctrination of feminism and the negative way it has affected western females first hand in the clubs I worked. Just trust me when I say what an ugly effect it has had on modern females and by my reckoning has only got worse since I finished that line of work(and pls don’t call me a misogynist, taking into account the healthy relationship I have with my wife, 2 daughters and a few select female friends I’m telling you it would be a rush to judgement).
On rush to judgements… your quick judgement, and obvious lack of education on the subject of Andrew Tate seems to have allowed you to make a said judgement based on, maybe a few clips you’ve been fed? First, he has never called himself a misogynist and has often explained why he loves women(especially those who openly show respect for themselves). I can only assume you’ve seen some cut clip somewhere taken out of context. I’d like to clarify, I’m no massive fan of Andrew Tate. But… Him and his brother are the 2 guys that do things like the following(often, and mostly without declaring it themselves for recognition)… a young mother puts a post up on TikTok(crying) regarding her difficulty in paying her bills that has reached a point where she has to sacrifice her daughters braces. The brothers contact her and pay all the expenses on her daughter’s braces. This only came out because the mother did another TikTok to thank them. There are many instances we don’t hear about these boys helping women and men alike without attempts to draw recognition. Doesn’t sound like the actions of misogynists to me. I’d be very careful in making judgments on people based on ‘the way the mainstream want the portrayed’. As for the current legal actions against them, I guarantee the twisting of facts will have many people making a rush to judgment, I also guarantee every girl involved was a willing participant(whether they are “Convinced” to testify otherwise or not). Make no mistake, the brothers are part of a group that went hard during the Covid con against the established narrative, since proven correct multiple times, there are very powerful groups that didn’t like that, the same groups that went all in against truth telling drs like J Bhattacharya, Peter McCullough et al who have been proven right and far mor ethical in their assessments than say Jay Varma(New Yorks Covid response head) who recently admitted to going to drug fueled sex party’s during 2020 as he was telling everyone else to wear face nappys and stay 6’ apart. But I digress.
I’ve run out of time, but the bottom line is my cynical assessment of human nature has been a healthy one by my own estimation. As for the distrust of reason I think we could again look at the Covid era, a time when people not only lost their minds(admittedly because of a well conducted fear psy op) but many so obviously use it as a power grab completely disregarding a more reasonable response to a hyped up flu season(34mil flu cases in 2019, nearly zero in 2020 but 34mil recorded Covid cases in 2020🙄, isn’t the PCR test wonderful, thanks Kary Mullis for inventing it). So post the dum ages(2020-2024) it might be fair to ask “what is reasonable, how do I trust the things presented as reason when they turn out to be a lie? Do I distrust them?
1 answer would be yes, look hard for narrative.
Just a few thoughts I had upon waking this morning. Luckily, for the time being anyway, we are still allowed to disagree, think for ourselves, and remain in healthy dialogue about it.
I do love your work Donald, and thank you for it.
"First, he has never called himself a misogynist". With respect, I think you're mistaken about this, and perhaps rushing too hastily to judgement yourself. There are several examples of him referring to himself as a misogynist in ways that remain unchanged by the original context. See this interview, for instance. "You can't slander me because I will state right now that I am absolutely sexist and I'm absolutely a misogynist and I have [ __ ] you money and you can't take it away so I'll say what I want because I'm a realist and when you're a realist you're sexist there's no way you can be rooted in reality and not be sexist."
https://youtu.be/fhUi1htVeJc?si=JOB_xoZbSpBkUVy0
I’m really not a big enough fan of Andrew Tate to listen to a 2hr interview to discover he “referred to himself” as a misogynist(though I’m glad you are). So I’ll take your word for it and concede that one.
I will say that in the current cultural climate the word misogyny has been thrown around so much it’s just another one that’s lost it’s meaning so I’d be interested to see you interview him and ask if he’s a “pathological woman hater” and see his response… from what I’ve seen(interview wise) I doubt he’d “revel” in that description, and on balance of evidence(from what I’ve seen) you’d have a hard time convincing me he’s a pathological woman hater.
I’m not sure if you’ve had as much experience as myself in being around fighters, bodybuilders, bouncers etc. it’s a different world let me tell ya. Others may not understand this but I get what he’s saying when he says he’s got [….] money and being a realist that makes him a bit of a sexist. He’s a respected, good looking guy in his prime with way more money than most, can you even imagine the amount of women(especially the modern 5th wave feminist incarnation) are just willing to (and have) thrown their body’s at him? I’ve had a glimps of this in my previous line of work. Modern women will bend over backwards and turn themselves inside out for ‘that guy with status’, it’s just a fact. After a while you see the reality of this, you see inside the minds of all these women running around doing what society has told them is “empowering”🙄. Quite frankly it’s disgraceful, Haraam as he often puts it. Non of these discoveries make you a pathological woman hater though, especially once you understand where the brainwashing of these poor girls has come from.
I often find it amusing that people who have lived completely different lives than someone else can so quickly interpret the intentions of the other.
[You see it with Donald Trump…
“Mexico aren’t sending their best people”, oh “he hates black & brown people”🙄, truly nauseating.]
By age 28 I’d seen enough of the decline in the values of western women to declare I’d never in my life date one of them again, I’d be curious to know if that makes me a sexist or misogynist. I married an Asian and had 3 half Asian children, but ive still been called a racist since then for airing what I believe to be truths… talk about words that get bandied around like confetti in modern times hey.
We got a bit off track considering your article was some more brilliant thoughts and quotes from Soctrates haha.
I ordered “How to think like Socrates” this morning and very much look forward to reading it.
I’m also looking forward to the benefits of being a paid member on your substack, please don’t try and revoke my membership haha. I’m only a pain in the arse occasionally.
You don't need to listen to the whole interview. You can just search the transcript for the section where he describes himself as a misogynist. Because he has said this repeatedly, it's been widely reported (accurately) in the media. When someone repeatedly and emphatically complains that the media are conspiring against them and spreading lies, sometimes that's simply because they're the ones trying to mislead you.