What are the most important ways in which you feel Stoic philosophy has had an impact on your life? How does it change things for you? Which ideas or practices do you find most useful? Share your thoughts below and read about what other people have found most helpful. (Please respond, if you can, to at least one other comment in the thread, to help the conversation grow.) Let’s see what people have to say!
For many people, I think, there's just one big idea that they take from Stoicism and that may be enough, although the Stoics describe many concepts and practices. What's the best idea you've taken from Stoic philosophy?
The best? It sounds awful, but for me it's probably to do with understanding anger, recognising that moment it's about to take away control from me, and being able (mostly) to shut it down.
I can attest to a similar experience. I am undergoing some major life changes which, in the past, would have incited anger. Through the practice of Stoicism, I've been better able to navigate these changes by managing my anger. I concur that this has been a benefit.
Same with me. However, I find I'm having to check my anger more often though. The more I realize or accept that others make bad choices because they probably just "don't know" I'm finding I'm also getting frustrated with, why they don't know or have no interest in knowing. And so new lessons for me to learn and correct.
I can relate to this. A lot of my anger is really what I'd call toxic disappointment. I get angry that others make the 'wrong' choices, over and over. Even after it's obvious (to me at least) that they know they're making the wrong choices.
Somehow that's harder to deal with than anger at a natural event. I'm realising it's because I personalise it. If I can fully accept "they didn't know any better", "they acted out of ignorance, so they couldn't have acted any other way", and that I do and say plenty of dumb stuff out of ignorance too, it may get easier.
If I can perceive the actions of others as part of nature. Make it more objective, and less personal; I think I'll be on the right track. Really looking forward to the Socrates book as I get the feeling a lot of this will be covered.
I like your perspective on this. I'm starting to notice similar topics & frustrations noted in the ancients discussions, from Seneca, to Epictetus and especially Marcus. He talks about, reminds himself daily, I think, the beginning of chapter 2, that he will meet with basically the most unknowing ignorant people that day. Then I remind myself of the allegory of the cave, I think that story is in Xenophon's Socrates, that they are used to looking at the shapes on the wall, are comforted by the same, and are afraid for what ever reason to leave the cave and really see. So, I find I have to keep reminding myself that there will always be ignorant people and there is nothing I can do about it. I can try to educate them, or as is recommended, just provide the best example I can of virtue and one day maybe they will wake up. My Dad never did, he was so set in his ways, like a rock, and confident about his ways, even though I could see that he contradicted himself constantly despite being an extremely intelligent person. I'm learning currently about Triune Brain theory, where some people get stuck in the "reptilian" brain which monitors safety or flight & fight. The vegus nerve is part of that process that can keep them from escaping that part of the brain due to some prior trauma in their lives. I know from getting to know about my Dad, he grew up in an alcoholic family and his Dad was a wife beater. I had heard one story that my Dad had to knock my Grandfather out once because of what he was doing to my Grandmother. Learning that there are doors between each of these sections of the brain and to open the doors requires training or awareness which for some requires professional help. It's very interesting. There's a book I have but want to read when I get time, Waking the Tiger, about helping those escape. I spent much of my childhood and teenage years trying to help my father, but to no end. So it had become a life long journey. Then, through my own struggles, thankful to find Stoicism. Very much looking forward to Donald's book on Socrates!
Yes this one for me to. A combination of the dichotomy of control - attend to my own thoughts, actions and emotions with a focus on doing what is best for all to the best of our ability.
Key thing for me: the idea of virtue being its own reward, and developing a basic understanding of virtue and vice.
I like to think I wasn't immoral before coming to Stoicism, but like many liberal (broadly speaking) westerners I was probably a bit amoral, without really thinking about it. Not sure if moral is the right word, ethical maybe?
There are so many people and institutions attempting to assert their ideas and values, that if we don't have a framework for developing our own, it's easy to get misled. For me Stoicism is a big part of that framework.
Fully agree with what you said. If I'm reading what you said right, or intending to say. I think immoral as accepting that we will die. Or is that immortal. Stoicism helped me tremendously when my father died. As I've begun to see death as natural as birth. Not glorified, or something bad, it just is a part of life.
But also agree with the ideas and values asserted by corporations, government and other institutions. I'm involved in scouting and the idea most have is that character must be forced on youth or they won't learn it. I found that just by living in nature, camping, making their own decisions, youth are faced with virtues all the time. And, nature is objective.
Re-Learning and reconsidering everything from the basis of what's up to me and what's not up to me. To learn to internalize desires and aversions and that externals are indifferent to me. To realize where good and bad really exists. To accept that I am a slave seeking freedom and that freedom is available if I choose to follow the path. Then also to accept that everyone else, except Socrates, is a slave as well, and many don't yet realize it. So when I believe that someone wrongs me, it has become easier to forgive them, understand that it is my opinion that wronged me, and that they don't really know what they are doing. And I think most of all, balance, of all things. I've started feeling a good feeling that I have never felt before, it's very faint but growing stronger as my practice improves. I think Marcus discusses this, something to the effect of how can wisdom be weaker than vice. It seems that is natures plan, we can't attain reason or wisdom until we are capable of letting go of the big feelings and seek internal tranquility that many will tell you doesn't exist. It's easier to just believe them, because it's hard to experience what tranquility really means. The really hard part, I'm finding, is balancing what the Stoics taught with today's society, where it's acceptable & even promoted to "work hard" for reputation, status, property, external gratifications, etc. But that work has to be continuous and is never ending, because the feelings from those "wins" are really empty and must be repeated over and over again to be sustained. Taking the Stoic path, has been extremely hard, especially in the beginning, and seems to be continuously hard as I learn more and become more aware. However, I'm finding that the good feeling inside is continually growing, doesn't go away when I make mistakes, and is self sustaining. Viktor Frankl said that Freedom is balanced by Responsibility and that we should ask nature what it wants from us. That was very powerful and I think Stoic like. It takes self responsibility to become truly free.
For me - the dichotomy of control... learning to not sweat the stuff that I cannot directly control. Rather than worry about it, I can acknolwedge the event with the thought - this event/other's behaviour is outwith my control. I can only control how I respond to it.
The psychologist, Tom Borkovec, one of the leading experts on the psychology of worry, pointed out that worry and rumination tend to take us into the realm of our imagination, focusing on the past or hypothetical future problems. We're deep in mindlessly going over the "there and then", rather than being mindful of the here and now. By training ourselves to remain grounded in the here and now we can counteract the baneful effects of worry and rumination - two of the most unhealthy styles of thinking.
My Dad could have used your advice. He worried excessively, constantly, would keep my mom up to all hours of the night talking about it. I slept in the room next to them and it kept me up some nights. I think that helped me when I was young to rebel and try to be more objective and not follow that path as it seemed then very unhealthy to me. But today, as a Dad, I've got to check myself to make sure I'm not following his footsteps.
Yes! Studying Stoicism has taught me a very new and so helpful idea and practice - to focus on “the present moment” And NOT on my past or on my future hopes and fears!
In no deliberate order: 1) I now know that anger is a loss of control, handing control of myself over to someone or thing. I recognise that first feeling when anger is about to take control and ... mostly ... I can quickly reflect that this is wrong and stop the next step to being angry. That alone has improved my life considerably as I have never, ever been both angry AND enjoying life. 2) I don't tell people my opinions and state them as facts. Friends and family probably appreciate that I'm less of a... (Yes, yes, I realise that this post is close to telling you my opinions and stating them as facts, but no-one is perfect.) 3) I understand that I will die. At some time that will put an end to everything I can do. Actually, aging will do that too ... there will be a last time that I can climb the nearby hill. 4) Just behaving as how a good person would behave leads to a more pleasant life. People even say "thank you" to me when all I've done is asked myself "what would Socrates do?" and it is really nice when some stranger says "thank you".
A friend of mine, who is a stoic in practice if not in label, reframes "self-control" always in terms of "self-management," which has helped me to more gently redirect and reframe anger and other controlling upwellings of emotions or addictions.
I like your perspective on death. In a way, it's the last hill to climb.
I could probably pick many things, but one practice that really changes things is accepting all the events that occur and, in a way, cultivating a kind of gratitude for everything that happens fueled by the belief that it couldn’t have happened any other way. It helps prevent (or at least reduces the regularity of) getting endlessly stuck trying to change things that can’t be changed.
Also, the underlying notion that one of our purposes for being here is to tolerate and help each other is one that can really improve how we relate to those around us.
Marcus Aurelius seems to think that focusing on our social nature is one of the most helpful aspects of Stoicism. It's the first remedy he mentions for anger and the one he returns to most often. There are a load of superb metaphors for acceptance in the Cynic literature. For example, they say boxers who cower and back away defensively from their opponents end up getting more badly injured than the ones who advance confidently toward their opponents. When we act defensively and struggle against painful feelings (or events) we often end up making them worse, and creating additional problems for ourselves.
That's a great metaphor. It's the perfect counter to the argument that acceptance is the same thing as a resigned slump into passivity or an admission that we can’t actively respond to our situation.
Acceptance just gives us a much stronger base from which to approach what we’re facing.
It's often possible to convert negative events into something more positive by working on what is within our control, but first it helps to accept the reality that we can't directly change things that are outside our control.
I like this...."The recruit pales at the thought of a wound, but the Veteran can look at the blood flowing beneath his breastplate with composure, for he knows he has often won the battle after giving blood " Seneca
I like this idea. I kept a gratitude journal on my phone's notepad app for a week or so. Each morning adding things I was grateful for. It was at a time when I often woke with negative thoughts and worries. It helped break out of that mindset.
I ended up writing down lots of things that were out of my control, but beneficial. Being born in a free country, being in good health, having a roof over my head... lots of things I take for granted. I guess technically those are all preferred indifferents, so not 'good' or 'bad', but it helped me stop thinking about the non-preferred indifferents for a while :)
That’s a very useful practice. We’re often told to “count our blessings” but we rarely take the time to consciously do so.
The more we notice the things we’re taking for granted—or the simpler the things we can take joy in—the more there is to be grateful for. Kind of like a lowering of our gratitude threshold!
Thanks for the opportunity to think and share! And thanks to this thought for stirring my ideas!
I've come to realise that a lot of my education reflects the stoic practice. Hasn't made it easier. One thing that has taken me the longest is accepting all events that occur. I don't explicitly think gratitude, though.
For me it's the curiosity and the challenge: what is coming next and how can I make the best of it. I do out-reach to what is theoretically out of my control or influence, in a "no harm in trying" sort of way. And if I fail but I am alive, no problem, tomorrow is a great day to start all over again.
The hardest was accepting my limits and forgiving myself. I don't know how stoic it is, but playfulness has become my aid and best friend.
I'm much less serious than when I was younger, go figure!
“And if I fail but I am alive, no problem…” is a lovely line! It reminds me of something Chuck Chakrapani says in his Stoicism book Unshakable Freedom:
“Even when you feel everything is going wrong, still you have something: your life.
…As long as you have this thing called life, and as long as you can clearly distinguish what is under your control and what is not, you are free to enjoy the festival of life.
Look at all the preferred indifferents in your life right now. It is for us to enjoy what is in front of us.”
Stoicism has helped me understand and challenges me that I interpret all of reality. The goal then becomes how can I interact with all of reality with goodness, kindness, and peacefulness. Stoicism asks me to offer a reflective response to all my impressions rather than a non-reflective mindless reaction.
Yes, we should continually pay attention, like someone walking barefoot, but by paying attention to our judgements and the impressions to which we give our assent.
I’ve become more accepting of uncertainty by reading and listening to Stoicism books and podcasts. Understanding the dichotomy of control was the turning point for me.
There's quite a lot of modern research on a construct called "intolerance of uncertainty", which we know is correlated with depression and anxiety. Modern cognitive therapy sometimes focuses on training clients to accept uncertainty, and ambiguity. Yes, the dichotomy of control is so popular, it's surprising we're not making more use of it in CBT today.
Aside from peripheral knowledge from college, I was first introduced to Stoicism via William Irvine's The Stoic Challenge, which set me off on reading numerous titles, including your How to Think Like a Roman Emperor, Verissimus and Marcus Aurelius biography (Yale). Caring for my child with complex medical needs can be absolutely draining physically and mentally. Caregiving is a full-time job even when you are not caring for the person at that time. Of course, the 4 cardinal virtues are fantastic guardrails to conduct one's life by, but the concept that has helped me the most is Amor Fati. I have found it to be a life changing perspective. Loving one's fate (or a loved one's fate) can be empowering and a big middle finger to life, which in large part we do not control. My favorite quote is by far Marcus's “The mind adapts and converts to its own purposes the obstacle to our acting. The impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way. 21.”
Thank you for all that you do for philosophy and making it interesting and accessible.
Stoicism really helped me to use my initial feelings of events as signs to stop, take a step back, and think about the event in a rational manner. With that I became more calm, thoughtful, accepting, and present.
To avoid engaging too emotionally in every situation, calm down before reacting. Think about what really happened or was said, and understand how to respond based on discernment: is it under my control or not? I notice that I am much calmer and can communicate in most situations without anger. This makes me feel good, much better, and more self-confident.
For me it has tamed my "wild mind" as said in Vipassana. I try to use more knowledge & reason balanced by seeking wisdom, not believing what my feelings are telling me, or others, or my perception of the past. I read from one of the ancient stoics nightly now, mostly Epictetus, but also Seneca, Marcus and also Socrates. Modern authors like yourself have helped with interpreting what the ancients said or meant which allows me to go back and reread with greater understanding. I have fewer needs from external desires and I try to regulate my external aversions. It's a long process but each day focused more on character and virtue, for me has lead to clarity, humility, independence and a path towards person freedom. I love what they have said, that nature has given us what we already have and need, which is free. We only need to rediscover it, leave the cave and begin to see again. I love the statement by Seneca, paraphrased, philosophy is not to be used to correct others, it's to be used to correct ourselves. Which follows from Epictetus, as correcting others is external to us and not up to us.
It has helped me deal with the death of loved ones. although I considered myself a Christian at the Time : "So you have had to bury someone you have loved, now go find someone to love " Seneca
"Do not say that someone has died, say they have been returned to where they came from " Epictetus
"For Noone can be above the man who is above fortune; and there is no Cheerfulness like the Serenity of mind of a Soul who is not elevated or dejected by good or ill fortune " Seneca Epistles
Although not a Stoic quote, the following got me started with philosophy and serves as a reminder of my greater goal going forward.
“We must be better.”
Stoicism, to me, is a philosophy of simply learning and practicing to be better. Many of us don’t start with philosophy when we’re young - as Marcus did for example - but we come into it at difficult points. When I started I certainly wasn’t someone who had even thought of my character as being important, but felt a need for some sort of ‘change’. At the time I sought that change in externals, which I’m very glad has shifted.
For me, to practice Stoicism is to progress towards knowing thyself, mastering thyself, and becoming better.
“Goodness is not a destination we arrive at, but a practice. Misfortune may drive anyone to darkness; we resist it only through wisdom and vigilance.”
Stoicism has changed what I think and how I react to the things/events in my life that I do not control. People cannot “make me mad.” I can only get angry of my own volition. I am responsible for my emotions, no one else can be responsible for my emotional state. Additionally, I am not responsible for anyone else’s emotional responses. I am done tiptoeing around certain people in a misguided and often futile attempt to do nothing that causes them to rant angrily over nothing worthy of that response. And I’m done wasting energy being angry at what I cannot change. The other major change is my learning to treat everyone and everything as if they are on temporary loan from the Providential Universe, so I can be grateful while I have them without being fearful of their loss. The most useful practice for me has been reading various Stoic writing each morning with my cup of tea before I face the day and its challenges and lessons.
I have a conflict with a colleague. The other day I walked past a chestnut tree. The leaves were falling off, turning brown. It reminded me about memento mori, and I relaxed, thought about my own death, and just let go of the conflict
The biggest idea I take from Stoicism is something it really has in common with Aristotelian, Confucian and Buddhist ethics--all of the "axial age" systems. This is the big idea that the type of excellence we are after in the pursuit of happiness is equivalent to the self-sufficiency of the present moment. For as long as some future outcome is the point of our (effortful, anxious) endeavor, we have no access to the type of grace or excellence (virtue) that is constitutive of our happiness. In Aristotle, the concept that captures this big idea is entelecheia, and in the ethical domain this is achieved in fine actions, which have no end outside themselves. (Actions performed for some interest lose the quality of fineness, as at best poor imitations of virtue.) In Confucianism, it is observance of the rites, which similarly involves performing the graceful, courteous, deferent action for its own sake, without a view to what it might lead to. (Ritual observance with an end in view is no longer genuine ritual observance--the "spell," we might say, is broken.) Observance of the rites is in fact tantamount to the sort of non-action that Taoism celebrates as wu-wei, which I believe is actually very close to Aristotle's entelecheia and energeia. And of course, Buddhism is emphatically about deliverance from those jealous attachments that distract us from the perfection available to us right now. (Buddhism is about a lot more than mindfulness, it is even more about right action for its own sake, and there is an excellence in the ritual of meditation that transcends the subjective state that accompanies it.) It strikes me that all of these axial-age ethical systems, of which Stoicism, with its powerful conception of the adiaphoron, is an especially elegant formation, differ in this regard from all modern ethical systems, which have without exception discarded this emphasis on the self-sufficiency of the present. It is almost as though moderns disbelieve that achieving this self-sufficiency is possible or could possibly be worth doing/non-doing. Traveling to other cultures, one notices that it is the so-called Occidental ones that have the hardest time with this "big idea," so dedicated we are to goalsetting, achievement and outcomes.
For me the two huge discoveries have been the dichotomy of control and daily premeditatio malorum (apologies if my Latin spelling is off). The former perhaps should have been obvious in hindsight but the realisation that not everything is within our control - and how to deal with that - was a genuine revelation. Premeditatio malorum has helped me to better deal with small daily frustrations - even simple things such as delays on public transport on the way to work - which has made me a much calmer and happier person. So many ways in which Stoicism has helped me but these would be the two standout benefits that I've experienced.
Thanks to Dr. Greg Sadler for his youtube videos which is where I first came aross Stoicism, and from which I've learned a tremendous amount, and to you for How to Think Like a Roman Emperor which has also been a great source of knowledge and wisdom.
The idea of health as a preferred indifferent. Being chronically ill, this idea has taken a lot of internal pressure out of my life. When my illness flares, I treat the symptoms as best I can and am able to be much more compassionate with myself and also maintain my boundaries around other people’s expectations of me.
It contributed towards being a better version of myself, the meditations every morning and a very pragmatic way of approaching life now. It has greatly influenced me toward a being a Therapist specializing in Stoicism.
For me it was the realization that there was an underlying system (thousands of years old, at that) to a lot of the little tricks and hacks I'd cobbled together in the process of simply *surviving* the first ~30 years of my life. I had a collection of aphorisms (eg "99% of life isn't up to us, and the other 1% is how we respond") and perspective frameworks ("this problem now is practice for greater challenges later") but it was just a hodgepodge until I encountered Stoicism.
Stoicism enabled me to get systematic about it, to scaffold out from a coherent central thread into areas I hadn't even begun to improve: my focus, my reactivity, my anger. It also enabled me to double down on that parts I already had, by studying both the ancients and the modern resurgence. The wisdom I mined from those sources, improved the effectiveness of my existing strategies tenfold. I feel concurrently like a totally different person, and like a truer version of the self I was before I encountered Stoicism. More awake and alive.
With being in a drug and alcohol program with Hazelden in Minnesota I am really trying to re-establish stoicism into my life. I am really working on needing to have control. Letting go of things I only thought I had control over is getting better. Also my patience with others has also greatly improved.
Interesting question, Dr. R. There are many ways Stoicism has changed my life. I honestly wish I had known about it 40 years ago, in my early teens, or even in my twenties, about the time I became an EMT. At that time, the knowledge of the Fundamental Rule and Epictetus' three disciplines would have been very helpful.
However, in addition to these ideas, Stoicism's concepts of living in the present and accepting one's fate has helped considerably to live a much more peaceful existence.
As for living in accordance with Nature, that was pretty much validation of the ideas put into my head growing up in the "sticks".
Besides the more obvious tenets like what’s up to us and accepting our fate, Stoicism is teaching me that in order to live a good life I have to work on it consistently. It’s a continuous practice which is reflected on the quality of my life. When I slack I observe my self slipping into negative emotions more often. When I put more effort into the practice and pay more attention to my thoughts and actions I feel content and happy and able to catch and limit the effects of negative emotions.
A life-changing notion from Seneca is that “We are more often frightened than hurt; and we suffer more from imagination than from reality.”
For a person who struggled with severe anxiety and a doomsday outlook, this realization allowed me to start tracking how much of what I “panicked” over was as bad as I initially perceived and how often the doomsday fears happened.
The result is no more medication and a calm I'd never known.
After leaving Christianity I definitely felt lost for a few years until I happened to pick up Pigliucci’s How To Be a Stoic! I had previously been more interested in metaphysics, but at that time in my life Stoicism’s ethical philosophy of life really appealed to me. Stoicism’s recommendations match up with my experiences, and it is a great complement to the interest I already had in Ancient Greco-Roman history & philosophy!
I definitely think it has improved my life - I am quicker to see negative thoughts for what they are and not let them spiral out of control. Even if it is hard to be perfect, I am less envious of other people, as I see things like wealth and health more-so as preferred indifferents than the things that are truly valuable in life (our character).
So true, Mike. I, too, have been working on my self-discipline to rein in not only my lack of moderation, but also my jaded cynicism (small "c"). Making that conscious choice to be kind to others that treat me with disdain without making snide or rude comments to them has been quite a challenge, as has choosing not to have a drink after a rough day.
So much, but one helpful practice from Marcus Aurelius is thinking of the qualities of people you admire and how they would cope with a difficult situation you face. The Stoic reminder is to appreciate their virtues as you see friends dealing with life’s harsh vicissitudes over time
So many things Stoicism has helped me with in my life with my thinking and actions. The main areas I believe are the cardinal virtues and reflections on these each evening to show where I actually used them in my life that day. The dichotomy of control has been essential for me, that many things are out of our control but our response is what we control and to focus on. Your morning meditation has helped with this as well and something I do each morning to help me prepare for the day.
I survived a massive hemorrhagic stroke in October of 2022. Thank God I was reading and practicing stoicism prior to the event. Learning to control what I could odd what saved my sanity afterwards. Throw some of Frankls existentialism in there and these two philosophies carried new through my new reality. Not only did I survive I found a new zest for life. I got more in touch with my emotions and not just the negative ones. Now I wrote about the lessons I have learned on my Substack. Lessons that aided me.
Dichotomy of control. Love of fate. The coming out practice. I’m sure there is more but those are the ones that really stick out.
It’s like you’re asking us to pick our favorite child… Studying this philosophy has brought me a sense of peace in how I view the religion I was raised with and felt disconnected from as an adult, but I didn’t want to dismiss all of it. Truth can come from Epicureans, Platonists etc.
Stoism has helped my life in the physical.. mental.gamily relationships. Grief. I now feel tranquil my life. Worry less, it helps my focus my time in assessing what is urgent and important in the here and now. I find i also less angry with life. I read journal conversations with others and share my Stoism perspective with others, and this helps me live it.
The Stoic concepts of "Amor Fati" and only worrying about what you can control have been key to reducing my stress and high blood pressure. Amor Fati means love one's fate. (You can buy a sticker to remind you. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0C9X2KGGL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8) In the military, it is more often expressed as "embrace the suck." Basically, amor fati means making the best of your situation and not whining about it. Life is a shit sandwich and we just have to chew on it. Buddhism expresses the idea a little more eloquently but it is the same idea. We need to make the best of things because there is a lot we can influence to improve the situation and negative emotions like grief, fear, anger, etc. do nothing but make the situation much worse. For example, my mother had a stroke and somebody needs to care for her. That person was unfortunately me because my sister is working and I was wrongfully terminated from my job after reporting criminal behavior to the ethics compliance officer. (Federal law enforcement eventually shut down my last place of employments anyway so I at least avoided criminal liability and losing my law license.) I do the best I can helping my Mom and can't control the criminal culture that has infected all of corporate Amerika. I can control where I live in the future and hope to move to Canada where the government has high rankings of ethical compliance.
Focusing on what you can control means conserving a lot of mental energy for things that move the needle and make your life better. Focusing on what you can control is like prioritizing you tasks to the ones that have the most beneficial affect in your life. I focus on doing the best I can improving my life by caring for my Mom and studying for the patent bar when I have time. I can't influence the corruption that has permeated the US especially it's politics so I don't care what happens anymore. The only control I have is who I vote for and I don't worry about uneducated Amerikans vote into office. I can't control the outcome so I no longer worry about politics or the corruption in the government and corporate world. I can control preparation of an exfiltration plan, so that is what I work on.
Great thread Donald. It’s so hard to narrow it down, Stoicism is so rich, but for me at this point in my life journey I think it’s the decision making framework of Dichotomy of Control/Concern combined with a knowledge of Role Ethics.
Anger was my biggest problem when I was younger. Experiences in the Vietnam War had a lot to do with it, but were not the only cause. Studying Stoicism, particularly Seneca’s essays “On Anger,” and then applying its precepts, was an enormous help in controlling and overcoming fits of temper and rage.
Probably Seneca’s definition of anger as temporary insanity. I’m speaking here not of irritability but rage, particularly cold rage that lasts much longer than the hot variety.
Though this idea is embedded in Stoicism, it resonated with me through reading about an American Stoic Ralph Waldo Emerson. Our main function is to challenge ourselves to be excellent human beings skilled in the Art Of Living until our last breath.
Since, each day we live is it’s own lifetime we are beholden to act daily to taste “Ataraxia” as a gateway into awe and wonder. This is best done each day as Zeno reminds us that “Well Being Is Realized In Small Steps, But, This Is No Small Act”. This entails us to come alive each day to practice looking at our “Fears” and to be willing to dive into the belly of the beast.
The results of this endeavor is none of our business. What is our business is to do it each day, or each moment that “Fear” enters our psyche. We may not reach the pinnacles of success that the world dangles in front of us — daily.
What will happen when we take this challenge on board is that our lives will become more bold and alive since “Fear” is an interesting bedfellow to become more “intimate” with.
Through this experience of facing fear as it arises gripping our stomach and quickening our blood flow I have begun to notice certain simple key ideas that change the course of our lives. Such as;
“The Good Life Begins When We Stop Wanting A Better One.”
We won’t find the time to dwell on thoughts of despair and desiring a better life, because we are too alive and occupied with becoming very intimate with “Fear.”
Building everyday resilience to the challenges that keep coming. Having a framework and resources to apply to the hard stuff like: Awareness; Acceptance; Action; and Anti-fragility/resilience.
For me it’s the dichotomy of control. Knowing what I can control and what I can’t. This concept has changed my perspective on how I view other people and events. It helps me make better informed decisions. It also assists whenever externals lead to anxiety or depression.
I think that there are a great many things that I have learnt from Stoicism. I’ve always been a very cognitive person and like thinking things through. When I was growing up I was constantly told that emotion and the intellect were two separate domains and that you couldn’t apply reason or logic to your emotions. Learning about the cognitive model of emotion was a very freeing thing because it meant that actually emotions aren’t completely separate to the intellect but are in fact partly based on the judgments and beliefs that we have. Learning this freed me up to finally apply one of the best tools I have (the intellect) to my emotional life whereas previously I’d been hamstrung by believing they had nothing to do with each other.
It has helped me navigate some very big changes in my life, and helped me remain calm and present for the people who need me to be calm and present. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and for facilitating this discussion.
If I am honest, so far Stoicism's effects on me are indirect, as I have not yet committed to it in principle or in practice. However, the "option," as it were, of Stoicism as a potential direction to take is nonetheless a sense of calm and counterbalance.
To clarify, my motivational "formula" seems to require a certain zeal that borders on allowing it to consume me in the moment. A more direct commitment to Stoicism would likely leave me fighting against a different current of being slightly too pacified, not because Stoicism is naturally pacifying, but because I am naturally too easily pacified.
It has improved my life tenfold. Problems are smaller,life is easier it has also given me a better understanding of myself among other things. The biggest thing for me is that it has guided me through the mine field of Bipolar Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder and PTSD. I strongly believe that stoic teachings should be part of the curriculum in mental health practices.
I am nearing the end of this life. Stoic philosophy has given me the will and tools to stop living to merely gratify every impulse, to seize control over my mind and actions, to choose the thoughts I hold in mind.
For many people, I think, there's just one big idea that they take from Stoicism and that may be enough, although the Stoics describe many concepts and practices. What's the best idea you've taken from Stoic philosophy?
The best? It sounds awful, but for me it's probably to do with understanding anger, recognising that moment it's about to take away control from me, and being able (mostly) to shut it down.
I can attest to a similar experience. I am undergoing some major life changes which, in the past, would have incited anger. Through the practice of Stoicism, I've been better able to navigate these changes by managing my anger. I concur that this has been a benefit.
Same with me. However, I find I'm having to check my anger more often though. The more I realize or accept that others make bad choices because they probably just "don't know" I'm finding I'm also getting frustrated with, why they don't know or have no interest in knowing. And so new lessons for me to learn and correct.
I can relate to this. A lot of my anger is really what I'd call toxic disappointment. I get angry that others make the 'wrong' choices, over and over. Even after it's obvious (to me at least) that they know they're making the wrong choices.
Somehow that's harder to deal with than anger at a natural event. I'm realising it's because I personalise it. If I can fully accept "they didn't know any better", "they acted out of ignorance, so they couldn't have acted any other way", and that I do and say plenty of dumb stuff out of ignorance too, it may get easier.
If I can perceive the actions of others as part of nature. Make it more objective, and less personal; I think I'll be on the right track. Really looking forward to the Socrates book as I get the feeling a lot of this will be covered.
I like your perspective on this. I'm starting to notice similar topics & frustrations noted in the ancients discussions, from Seneca, to Epictetus and especially Marcus. He talks about, reminds himself daily, I think, the beginning of chapter 2, that he will meet with basically the most unknowing ignorant people that day. Then I remind myself of the allegory of the cave, I think that story is in Xenophon's Socrates, that they are used to looking at the shapes on the wall, are comforted by the same, and are afraid for what ever reason to leave the cave and really see. So, I find I have to keep reminding myself that there will always be ignorant people and there is nothing I can do about it. I can try to educate them, or as is recommended, just provide the best example I can of virtue and one day maybe they will wake up. My Dad never did, he was so set in his ways, like a rock, and confident about his ways, even though I could see that he contradicted himself constantly despite being an extremely intelligent person. I'm learning currently about Triune Brain theory, where some people get stuck in the "reptilian" brain which monitors safety or flight & fight. The vegus nerve is part of that process that can keep them from escaping that part of the brain due to some prior trauma in their lives. I know from getting to know about my Dad, he grew up in an alcoholic family and his Dad was a wife beater. I had heard one story that my Dad had to knock my Grandfather out once because of what he was doing to my Grandmother. Learning that there are doors between each of these sections of the brain and to open the doors requires training or awareness which for some requires professional help. It's very interesting. There's a book I have but want to read when I get time, Waking the Tiger, about helping those escape. I spent much of my childhood and teenage years trying to help my father, but to no end. So it had become a life long journey. Then, through my own struggles, thankful to find Stoicism. Very much looking forward to Donald's book on Socrates!
Be good and do good.
Virtue and humanitarianism!
Like Ethel and Robert F. Kennedy?! And many others too!
Yes this one for me to. A combination of the dichotomy of control - attend to my own thoughts, actions and emotions with a focus on doing what is best for all to the best of our ability.
Key thing for me: the idea of virtue being its own reward, and developing a basic understanding of virtue and vice.
I like to think I wasn't immoral before coming to Stoicism, but like many liberal (broadly speaking) westerners I was probably a bit amoral, without really thinking about it. Not sure if moral is the right word, ethical maybe?
There are so many people and institutions attempting to assert their ideas and values, that if we don't have a framework for developing our own, it's easy to get misled. For me Stoicism is a big part of that framework.
Fully agree with what you said. If I'm reading what you said right, or intending to say. I think immoral as accepting that we will die. Or is that immortal. Stoicism helped me tremendously when my father died. As I've begun to see death as natural as birth. Not glorified, or something bad, it just is a part of life.
But also agree with the ideas and values asserted by corporations, government and other institutions. I'm involved in scouting and the idea most have is that character must be forced on youth or they won't learn it. I found that just by living in nature, camping, making their own decisions, youth are faced with virtues all the time. And, nature is objective.
Re-Learning and reconsidering everything from the basis of what's up to me and what's not up to me. To learn to internalize desires and aversions and that externals are indifferent to me. To realize where good and bad really exists. To accept that I am a slave seeking freedom and that freedom is available if I choose to follow the path. Then also to accept that everyone else, except Socrates, is a slave as well, and many don't yet realize it. So when I believe that someone wrongs me, it has become easier to forgive them, understand that it is my opinion that wronged me, and that they don't really know what they are doing. And I think most of all, balance, of all things. I've started feeling a good feeling that I have never felt before, it's very faint but growing stronger as my practice improves. I think Marcus discusses this, something to the effect of how can wisdom be weaker than vice. It seems that is natures plan, we can't attain reason or wisdom until we are capable of letting go of the big feelings and seek internal tranquility that many will tell you doesn't exist. It's easier to just believe them, because it's hard to experience what tranquility really means. The really hard part, I'm finding, is balancing what the Stoics taught with today's society, where it's acceptable & even promoted to "work hard" for reputation, status, property, external gratifications, etc. But that work has to be continuous and is never ending, because the feelings from those "wins" are really empty and must be repeated over and over again to be sustained. Taking the Stoic path, has been extremely hard, especially in the beginning, and seems to be continuously hard as I learn more and become more aware. However, I'm finding that the good feeling inside is continually growing, doesn't go away when I make mistakes, and is self sustaining. Viktor Frankl said that Freedom is balanced by Responsibility and that we should ask nature what it wants from us. That was very powerful and I think Stoic like. It takes self responsibility to become truly free.
For me - the dichotomy of control... learning to not sweat the stuff that I cannot directly control. Rather than worry about it, I can acknolwedge the event with the thought - this event/other's behaviour is outwith my control. I can only control how I respond to it.
Stoicism has really helped me to focus better in the moment. It has definitely has me reading more which is making me a smarter and better person.
The psychologist, Tom Borkovec, one of the leading experts on the psychology of worry, pointed out that worry and rumination tend to take us into the realm of our imagination, focusing on the past or hypothetical future problems. We're deep in mindlessly going over the "there and then", rather than being mindful of the here and now. By training ourselves to remain grounded in the here and now we can counteract the baneful effects of worry and rumination - two of the most unhealthy styles of thinking.
Thank you Donald
My Dad could have used your advice. He worried excessively, constantly, would keep my mom up to all hours of the night talking about it. I slept in the room next to them and it kept me up some nights. I think that helped me when I was young to rebel and try to be more objective and not follow that path as it seemed then very unhealthy to me. But today, as a Dad, I've got to check myself to make sure I'm not following his footsteps.
Yes! Studying Stoicism has taught me a very new and so helpful idea and practice - to focus on “the present moment” And NOT on my past or on my future hopes and fears!
True
In no deliberate order: 1) I now know that anger is a loss of control, handing control of myself over to someone or thing. I recognise that first feeling when anger is about to take control and ... mostly ... I can quickly reflect that this is wrong and stop the next step to being angry. That alone has improved my life considerably as I have never, ever been both angry AND enjoying life. 2) I don't tell people my opinions and state them as facts. Friends and family probably appreciate that I'm less of a... (Yes, yes, I realise that this post is close to telling you my opinions and stating them as facts, but no-one is perfect.) 3) I understand that I will die. At some time that will put an end to everything I can do. Actually, aging will do that too ... there will be a last time that I can climb the nearby hill. 4) Just behaving as how a good person would behave leads to a more pleasant life. People even say "thank you" to me when all I've done is asked myself "what would Socrates do?" and it is really nice when some stranger says "thank you".
"What would Socrates do?" Simply epic.
A friend of mine, who is a stoic in practice if not in label, reframes "self-control" always in terms of "self-management," which has helped me to more gently redirect and reframe anger and other controlling upwellings of emotions or addictions.
I like your perspective on death. In a way, it's the last hill to climb.
I could probably pick many things, but one practice that really changes things is accepting all the events that occur and, in a way, cultivating a kind of gratitude for everything that happens fueled by the belief that it couldn’t have happened any other way. It helps prevent (or at least reduces the regularity of) getting endlessly stuck trying to change things that can’t be changed.
Also, the underlying notion that one of our purposes for being here is to tolerate and help each other is one that can really improve how we relate to those around us.
Marcus Aurelius seems to think that focusing on our social nature is one of the most helpful aspects of Stoicism. It's the first remedy he mentions for anger and the one he returns to most often. There are a load of superb metaphors for acceptance in the Cynic literature. For example, they say boxers who cower and back away defensively from their opponents end up getting more badly injured than the ones who advance confidently toward their opponents. When we act defensively and struggle against painful feelings (or events) we often end up making them worse, and creating additional problems for ourselves.
That's a great metaphor. It's the perfect counter to the argument that acceptance is the same thing as a resigned slump into passivity or an admission that we can’t actively respond to our situation.
Acceptance just gives us a much stronger base from which to approach what we’re facing.
It's often possible to convert negative events into something more positive by working on what is within our control, but first it helps to accept the reality that we can't directly change things that are outside our control.
I like this...."The recruit pales at the thought of a wound, but the Veteran can look at the blood flowing beneath his breastplate with composure, for he knows he has often won the battle after giving blood " Seneca
I like this idea. I kept a gratitude journal on my phone's notepad app for a week or so. Each morning adding things I was grateful for. It was at a time when I often woke with negative thoughts and worries. It helped break out of that mindset.
I ended up writing down lots of things that were out of my control, but beneficial. Being born in a free country, being in good health, having a roof over my head... lots of things I take for granted. I guess technically those are all preferred indifferents, so not 'good' or 'bad', but it helped me stop thinking about the non-preferred indifferents for a while :)
That’s a very useful practice. We’re often told to “count our blessings” but we rarely take the time to consciously do so.
The more we notice the things we’re taking for granted—or the simpler the things we can take joy in—the more there is to be grateful for. Kind of like a lowering of our gratitude threshold!
Thanks for the opportunity to think and share! And thanks to this thought for stirring my ideas!
I've come to realise that a lot of my education reflects the stoic practice. Hasn't made it easier. One thing that has taken me the longest is accepting all events that occur. I don't explicitly think gratitude, though.
For me it's the curiosity and the challenge: what is coming next and how can I make the best of it. I do out-reach to what is theoretically out of my control or influence, in a "no harm in trying" sort of way. And if I fail but I am alive, no problem, tomorrow is a great day to start all over again.
The hardest was accepting my limits and forgiving myself. I don't know how stoic it is, but playfulness has become my aid and best friend.
I'm much less serious than when I was younger, go figure!
“And if I fail but I am alive, no problem…” is a lovely line! It reminds me of something Chuck Chakrapani says in his Stoicism book Unshakable Freedom:
“Even when you feel everything is going wrong, still you have something: your life.
…As long as you have this thing called life, and as long as you can clearly distinguish what is under your control and what is not, you are free to enjoy the festival of life.
Look at all the preferred indifferents in your life right now. It is for us to enjoy what is in front of us.”
Thanks, I love that thinking! Now I know what to read next
Stoicism has helped me understand and challenges me that I interpret all of reality. The goal then becomes how can I interact with all of reality with goodness, kindness, and peacefulness. Stoicism asks me to offer a reflective response to all my impressions rather than a non-reflective mindless reaction.
Yes, we should continually pay attention, like someone walking barefoot, but by paying attention to our judgements and the impressions to which we give our assent.
I love how you put this: interact with all of reality with goodness, kindness, and peacefulness. It’s definitely something I work towards too.
I’ve become more accepting of uncertainty by reading and listening to Stoicism books and podcasts. Understanding the dichotomy of control was the turning point for me.
There's quite a lot of modern research on a construct called "intolerance of uncertainty", which we know is correlated with depression and anxiety. Modern cognitive therapy sometimes focuses on training clients to accept uncertainty, and ambiguity. Yes, the dichotomy of control is so popular, it's surprising we're not making more use of it in CBT today.
Especially in these uncertain times. if we are about to find ourselves in Jonestown!
I was a bit hyperbolic…
Aside from peripheral knowledge from college, I was first introduced to Stoicism via William Irvine's The Stoic Challenge, which set me off on reading numerous titles, including your How to Think Like a Roman Emperor, Verissimus and Marcus Aurelius biography (Yale). Caring for my child with complex medical needs can be absolutely draining physically and mentally. Caregiving is a full-time job even when you are not caring for the person at that time. Of course, the 4 cardinal virtues are fantastic guardrails to conduct one's life by, but the concept that has helped me the most is Amor Fati. I have found it to be a life changing perspective. Loving one's fate (or a loved one's fate) can be empowering and a big middle finger to life, which in large part we do not control. My favorite quote is by far Marcus's “The mind adapts and converts to its own purposes the obstacle to our acting. The impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way. 21.”
Thank you for all that you do for philosophy and making it interesting and accessible.
"Make the best use of what is in your power, and take the rest as it happens." — Epictetus
Combine that with "If it is not right, do not do it; if it is not true, do not say it." — Marcus Aurelius
I came to Stoicism at a time of disorienting life experiences. The key for me was learning that I cannot control what happens to me, only my response.
Stoicism really helped me to use my initial feelings of events as signs to stop, take a step back, and think about the event in a rational manner. With that I became more calm, thoughtful, accepting, and present.
Plus, that approach helps my blood pressure :)
To avoid engaging too emotionally in every situation, calm down before reacting. Think about what really happened or was said, and understand how to respond based on discernment: is it under my control or not? I notice that I am much calmer and can communicate in most situations without anger. This makes me feel good, much better, and more self-confident.
To desire less and be grateful for the things I already ‘own’.
For me it has tamed my "wild mind" as said in Vipassana. I try to use more knowledge & reason balanced by seeking wisdom, not believing what my feelings are telling me, or others, or my perception of the past. I read from one of the ancient stoics nightly now, mostly Epictetus, but also Seneca, Marcus and also Socrates. Modern authors like yourself have helped with interpreting what the ancients said or meant which allows me to go back and reread with greater understanding. I have fewer needs from external desires and I try to regulate my external aversions. It's a long process but each day focused more on character and virtue, for me has lead to clarity, humility, independence and a path towards person freedom. I love what they have said, that nature has given us what we already have and need, which is free. We only need to rediscover it, leave the cave and begin to see again. I love the statement by Seneca, paraphrased, philosophy is not to be used to correct others, it's to be used to correct ourselves. Which follows from Epictetus, as correcting others is external to us and not up to us.
Studying Stoicism has made me more rational, calmer, more confident, happier, and (so important!) now working to be more virtuous!
That's great. And you're influencing other people through the progress you're making as well.
Thank you!
It has helped me deal with the death of loved ones. although I considered myself a Christian at the Time : "So you have had to bury someone you have loved, now go find someone to love " Seneca
"Do not say that someone has died, say they have been returned to where they came from " Epictetus
"For Noone can be above the man who is above fortune; and there is no Cheerfulness like the Serenity of mind of a Soul who is not elevated or dejected by good or ill fortune " Seneca Epistles
Although not a Stoic quote, the following got me started with philosophy and serves as a reminder of my greater goal going forward.
“We must be better.”
Stoicism, to me, is a philosophy of simply learning and practicing to be better. Many of us don’t start with philosophy when we’re young - as Marcus did for example - but we come into it at difficult points. When I started I certainly wasn’t someone who had even thought of my character as being important, but felt a need for some sort of ‘change’. At the time I sought that change in externals, which I’m very glad has shifted.
For me, to practice Stoicism is to progress towards knowing thyself, mastering thyself, and becoming better.
“Goodness is not a destination we arrive at, but a practice. Misfortune may drive anyone to darkness; we resist it only through wisdom and vigilance.”
Stoicism has changed what I think and how I react to the things/events in my life that I do not control. People cannot “make me mad.” I can only get angry of my own volition. I am responsible for my emotions, no one else can be responsible for my emotional state. Additionally, I am not responsible for anyone else’s emotional responses. I am done tiptoeing around certain people in a misguided and often futile attempt to do nothing that causes them to rant angrily over nothing worthy of that response. And I’m done wasting energy being angry at what I cannot change. The other major change is my learning to treat everyone and everything as if they are on temporary loan from the Providential Universe, so I can be grateful while I have them without being fearful of their loss. The most useful practice for me has been reading various Stoic writing each morning with my cup of tea before I face the day and its challenges and lessons.
I am certain only Stoicism could have prepared me for today’s world.🌎
I have a conflict with a colleague. The other day I walked past a chestnut tree. The leaves were falling off, turning brown. It reminded me about memento mori, and I relaxed, thought about my own death, and just let go of the conflict
The biggest idea I take from Stoicism is something it really has in common with Aristotelian, Confucian and Buddhist ethics--all of the "axial age" systems. This is the big idea that the type of excellence we are after in the pursuit of happiness is equivalent to the self-sufficiency of the present moment. For as long as some future outcome is the point of our (effortful, anxious) endeavor, we have no access to the type of grace or excellence (virtue) that is constitutive of our happiness. In Aristotle, the concept that captures this big idea is entelecheia, and in the ethical domain this is achieved in fine actions, which have no end outside themselves. (Actions performed for some interest lose the quality of fineness, as at best poor imitations of virtue.) In Confucianism, it is observance of the rites, which similarly involves performing the graceful, courteous, deferent action for its own sake, without a view to what it might lead to. (Ritual observance with an end in view is no longer genuine ritual observance--the "spell," we might say, is broken.) Observance of the rites is in fact tantamount to the sort of non-action that Taoism celebrates as wu-wei, which I believe is actually very close to Aristotle's entelecheia and energeia. And of course, Buddhism is emphatically about deliverance from those jealous attachments that distract us from the perfection available to us right now. (Buddhism is about a lot more than mindfulness, it is even more about right action for its own sake, and there is an excellence in the ritual of meditation that transcends the subjective state that accompanies it.) It strikes me that all of these axial-age ethical systems, of which Stoicism, with its powerful conception of the adiaphoron, is an especially elegant formation, differ in this regard from all modern ethical systems, which have without exception discarded this emphasis on the self-sufficiency of the present. It is almost as though moderns disbelieve that achieving this self-sufficiency is possible or could possibly be worth doing/non-doing. Traveling to other cultures, one notices that it is the so-called Occidental ones that have the hardest time with this "big idea," so dedicated we are to goalsetting, achievement and outcomes.
For me the two huge discoveries have been the dichotomy of control and daily premeditatio malorum (apologies if my Latin spelling is off). The former perhaps should have been obvious in hindsight but the realisation that not everything is within our control - and how to deal with that - was a genuine revelation. Premeditatio malorum has helped me to better deal with small daily frustrations - even simple things such as delays on public transport on the way to work - which has made me a much calmer and happier person. So many ways in which Stoicism has helped me but these would be the two standout benefits that I've experienced.
Thanks to Dr. Greg Sadler for his youtube videos which is where I first came aross Stoicism, and from which I've learned a tremendous amount, and to you for How to Think Like a Roman Emperor which has also been a great source of knowledge and wisdom.
The idea of health as a preferred indifferent. Being chronically ill, this idea has taken a lot of internal pressure out of my life. When my illness flares, I treat the symptoms as best I can and am able to be much more compassionate with myself and also maintain my boundaries around other people’s expectations of me.
"The door stands open." Epictetus put words to what I only knew as a raw sensation.
Whatever we suffer, we suffer by choice.
Why then allow ourselves to suffer?
It contributed towards being a better version of myself, the meditations every morning and a very pragmatic way of approaching life now. It has greatly influenced me toward a being a Therapist specializing in Stoicism.
For me it was the realization that there was an underlying system (thousands of years old, at that) to a lot of the little tricks and hacks I'd cobbled together in the process of simply *surviving* the first ~30 years of my life. I had a collection of aphorisms (eg "99% of life isn't up to us, and the other 1% is how we respond") and perspective frameworks ("this problem now is practice for greater challenges later") but it was just a hodgepodge until I encountered Stoicism.
Stoicism enabled me to get systematic about it, to scaffold out from a coherent central thread into areas I hadn't even begun to improve: my focus, my reactivity, my anger. It also enabled me to double down on that parts I already had, by studying both the ancients and the modern resurgence. The wisdom I mined from those sources, improved the effectiveness of my existing strategies tenfold. I feel concurrently like a totally different person, and like a truer version of the self I was before I encountered Stoicism. More awake and alive.
With being in a drug and alcohol program with Hazelden in Minnesota I am really trying to re-establish stoicism into my life. I am really working on needing to have control. Letting go of things I only thought I had control over is getting better. Also my patience with others has also greatly improved.
Interesting question, Dr. R. There are many ways Stoicism has changed my life. I honestly wish I had known about it 40 years ago, in my early teens, or even in my twenties, about the time I became an EMT. At that time, the knowledge of the Fundamental Rule and Epictetus' three disciplines would have been very helpful.
However, in addition to these ideas, Stoicism's concepts of living in the present and accepting one's fate has helped considerably to live a much more peaceful existence.
As for living in accordance with Nature, that was pretty much validation of the ideas put into my head growing up in the "sticks".
Besides the more obvious tenets like what’s up to us and accepting our fate, Stoicism is teaching me that in order to live a good life I have to work on it consistently. It’s a continuous practice which is reflected on the quality of my life. When I slack I observe my self slipping into negative emotions more often. When I put more effort into the practice and pay more attention to my thoughts and actions I feel content and happy and able to catch and limit the effects of negative emotions.
A life-changing notion from Seneca is that “We are more often frightened than hurt; and we suffer more from imagination than from reality.”
For a person who struggled with severe anxiety and a doomsday outlook, this realization allowed me to start tracking how much of what I “panicked” over was as bad as I initially perceived and how often the doomsday fears happened.
The result is no more medication and a calm I'd never known.
After leaving Christianity I definitely felt lost for a few years until I happened to pick up Pigliucci’s How To Be a Stoic! I had previously been more interested in metaphysics, but at that time in my life Stoicism’s ethical philosophy of life really appealed to me. Stoicism’s recommendations match up with my experiences, and it is a great complement to the interest I already had in Ancient Greco-Roman history & philosophy!
I definitely think it has improved my life - I am quicker to see negative thoughts for what they are and not let them spiral out of control. Even if it is hard to be perfect, I am less envious of other people, as I see things like wealth and health more-so as preferred indifferents than the things that are truly valuable in life (our character).
It has helped me to understand the importance of self discipline and how it is built from seemingly small choices made consciously every day.
So true, Mike. I, too, have been working on my self-discipline to rein in not only my lack of moderation, but also my jaded cynicism (small "c"). Making that conscious choice to be kind to others that treat me with disdain without making snide or rude comments to them has been quite a challenge, as has choosing not to have a drink after a rough day.
So much, but one helpful practice from Marcus Aurelius is thinking of the qualities of people you admire and how they would cope with a difficult situation you face. The Stoic reminder is to appreciate their virtues as you see friends dealing with life’s harsh vicissitudes over time
So many things Stoicism has helped me with in my life with my thinking and actions. The main areas I believe are the cardinal virtues and reflections on these each evening to show where I actually used them in my life that day. The dichotomy of control has been essential for me, that many things are out of our control but our response is what we control and to focus on. Your morning meditation has helped with this as well and something I do each morning to help me prepare for the day.
I survived a massive hemorrhagic stroke in October of 2022. Thank God I was reading and practicing stoicism prior to the event. Learning to control what I could odd what saved my sanity afterwards. Throw some of Frankls existentialism in there and these two philosophies carried new through my new reality. Not only did I survive I found a new zest for life. I got more in touch with my emotions and not just the negative ones. Now I wrote about the lessons I have learned on my Substack. Lessons that aided me.
Dichotomy of control. Love of fate. The coming out practice. I’m sure there is more but those are the ones that really stick out.
It’s like you’re asking us to pick our favorite child… Studying this philosophy has brought me a sense of peace in how I view the religion I was raised with and felt disconnected from as an adult, but I didn’t want to dismiss all of it. Truth can come from Epicureans, Platonists etc.
Stoism has helped my life in the physical.. mental.gamily relationships. Grief. I now feel tranquil my life. Worry less, it helps my focus my time in assessing what is urgent and important in the here and now. I find i also less angry with life. I read journal conversations with others and share my Stoism perspective with others, and this helps me live it.
The Stoic concepts of "Amor Fati" and only worrying about what you can control have been key to reducing my stress and high blood pressure. Amor Fati means love one's fate. (You can buy a sticker to remind you. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0C9X2KGGL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8) In the military, it is more often expressed as "embrace the suck." Basically, amor fati means making the best of your situation and not whining about it. Life is a shit sandwich and we just have to chew on it. Buddhism expresses the idea a little more eloquently but it is the same idea. We need to make the best of things because there is a lot we can influence to improve the situation and negative emotions like grief, fear, anger, etc. do nothing but make the situation much worse. For example, my mother had a stroke and somebody needs to care for her. That person was unfortunately me because my sister is working and I was wrongfully terminated from my job after reporting criminal behavior to the ethics compliance officer. (Federal law enforcement eventually shut down my last place of employments anyway so I at least avoided criminal liability and losing my law license.) I do the best I can helping my Mom and can't control the criminal culture that has infected all of corporate Amerika. I can control where I live in the future and hope to move to Canada where the government has high rankings of ethical compliance.
Focusing on what you can control means conserving a lot of mental energy for things that move the needle and make your life better. Focusing on what you can control is like prioritizing you tasks to the ones that have the most beneficial affect in your life. I focus on doing the best I can improving my life by caring for my Mom and studying for the patent bar when I have time. I can't influence the corruption that has permeated the US especially it's politics so I don't care what happens anymore. The only control I have is who I vote for and I don't worry about uneducated Amerikans vote into office. I can't control the outcome so I no longer worry about politics or the corruption in the government and corporate world. I can control preparation of an exfiltration plan, so that is what I work on.
Great thread Donald. It’s so hard to narrow it down, Stoicism is so rich, but for me at this point in my life journey I think it’s the decision making framework of Dichotomy of Control/Concern combined with a knowledge of Role Ethics.
Anger was my biggest problem when I was younger. Experiences in the Vietnam War had a lot to do with it, but were not the only cause. Studying Stoicism, particularly Seneca’s essays “On Anger,” and then applying its precepts, was an enormous help in controlling and overcoming fits of temper and rage.
I'm very interested in anger. What do you think was the most helpful aspect of On Anger in that regard?
Probably Seneca’s definition of anger as temporary insanity. I’m speaking here not of irritability but rage, particularly cold rage that lasts much longer than the hot variety.
The dichotomy of control - so apparently simple and obvious, but I only appreciated its importance since discovering Stoicism
Though this idea is embedded in Stoicism, it resonated with me through reading about an American Stoic Ralph Waldo Emerson. Our main function is to challenge ourselves to be excellent human beings skilled in the Art Of Living until our last breath.
Since, each day we live is it’s own lifetime we are beholden to act daily to taste “Ataraxia” as a gateway into awe and wonder. This is best done each day as Zeno reminds us that “Well Being Is Realized In Small Steps, But, This Is No Small Act”. This entails us to come alive each day to practice looking at our “Fears” and to be willing to dive into the belly of the beast.
The results of this endeavor is none of our business. What is our business is to do it each day, or each moment that “Fear” enters our psyche. We may not reach the pinnacles of success that the world dangles in front of us — daily.
What will happen when we take this challenge on board is that our lives will become more bold and alive since “Fear” is an interesting bedfellow to become more “intimate” with.
Through this experience of facing fear as it arises gripping our stomach and quickening our blood flow I have begun to notice certain simple key ideas that change the course of our lives. Such as;
“The Good Life Begins When We Stop Wanting A Better One.”
We won’t find the time to dwell on thoughts of despair and desiring a better life, because we are too alive and occupied with becoming very intimate with “Fear.”
I’d pick Justice as my favorite tenet. Where has it gone?!
Building everyday resilience to the challenges that keep coming. Having a framework and resources to apply to the hard stuff like: Awareness; Acceptance; Action; and Anti-fragility/resilience.
Stoicism has prepared me for today’s world. 🌎
For me it’s the dichotomy of control. Knowing what I can control and what I can’t. This concept has changed my perspective on how I view other people and events. It helps me make better informed decisions. It also assists whenever externals lead to anxiety or depression.
I think that there are a great many things that I have learnt from Stoicism. I’ve always been a very cognitive person and like thinking things through. When I was growing up I was constantly told that emotion and the intellect were two separate domains and that you couldn’t apply reason or logic to your emotions. Learning about the cognitive model of emotion was a very freeing thing because it meant that actually emotions aren’t completely separate to the intellect but are in fact partly based on the judgments and beliefs that we have. Learning this freed me up to finally apply one of the best tools I have (the intellect) to my emotional life whereas previously I’d been hamstrung by believing they had nothing to do with each other.
It has helped me navigate some very big changes in my life, and helped me remain calm and present for the people who need me to be calm and present. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and for facilitating this discussion.
If I am honest, so far Stoicism's effects on me are indirect, as I have not yet committed to it in principle or in practice. However, the "option," as it were, of Stoicism as a potential direction to take is nonetheless a sense of calm and counterbalance.
To clarify, my motivational "formula" seems to require a certain zeal that borders on allowing it to consume me in the moment. A more direct commitment to Stoicism would likely leave me fighting against a different current of being slightly too pacified, not because Stoicism is naturally pacifying, but because I am naturally too easily pacified.
It has improved my life tenfold. Problems are smaller,life is easier it has also given me a better understanding of myself among other things. The biggest thing for me is that it has guided me through the mine field of Bipolar Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder and PTSD. I strongly believe that stoic teachings should be part of the curriculum in mental health practices.
I am nearing the end of this life. Stoic philosophy has given me the will and tools to stop living to merely gratify every impulse, to seize control over my mind and actions, to choose the thoughts I hold in mind.