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Rob Bregmen's avatar

Thanks Donald, for a cogent summary of a position I have long taken to be reasonable. I finished Chris Gill's book last year. It would be foolhardy to question the rigor with which he approached this question. His conclusions make room for those who apply a more spiritual lens to the Stoic worldview as well as those for whom providence and design are incompatible with a Physics that includes over 2000 years of scientific advancement. While I find spiritual arguments fail to meet the standard of plausible explanation based on evidence and reason that I require, I have no problem sharing a table with those who see otherwise, particularly when there is so much within Stoicism on which we can agree. I've yet to read a foundational text that lists zealous intolerance as a virtue.

Matthew Rodriguez's avatar

Good read! I concur with this. While getting rid of Divine Providence may reframe certain ancient Stoic ideas such as “everything that happens in the world is good”, I don’t think that means Stoicism in general has to depend on such things. I think we can have Stoicism without the idea of Providence since much of the framework still holds.

I think this is basically what you say at the end about ethics and physics being related, but I do think ethics depends on physics in some sense—if we are to follow human nature, we ought to know what human nature is.

It doesn’t have to depend on any particular ideas about human nature or especially any particular ideas about modern chemistry, physics, etc.

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